The Clinician Transition

AMA with Emma and Emily

• The Clinician Transition • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Emily and Emma sit down for an AMA with TCT members for the Season One Finale.

Emceed by Garrett Wasson, PT, DPT.

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Season Finale Welcome And Community

SPEAKER_04

Hi there, this is Emma Brady, and I am thrilled to welcome you to the season finale of our first season of the Clinician Transition. Emily and I have been truly heartwarmed and encouraged by all of the messages that we got and appreciate those who sent us feedback or gave us reviews, nice reviews, or asked questions and gave us ideas. We were following along with you listening to us. So we ended this season with thousands and thousands of listeners from 29 countries in 597 cities. It's actually to make you realize that you are not alone. And if you're listening to this, there are a lot of other people looking for the same information, and they are finding us the same place that you're finding us, which is probably LinkedIn and Slack. So if you're kind of a lurker in there, maybe consider posting your questions you have, or sharing your wins, or sharing some cool information or what you're doing to working through this transition. And there's other people who are also lurking and want to hear from you. And no matter what, whether you're active or you're a you're a listener, we're happy to have you. And thanks again for listening. This is an episode where we recorded an AMA with Emily and me, and it was hosted by my friend and colleague. Very grateful to have Garrett Watson on the call being our moderator and MC. He's a PT who transitioned about a year and a half ago to sales. So hope you like the episode. And as always, let us know what you think, and we'll see you next season.

AMA Kickoff With Garrett Moderating

unknown

Great.

Emma Brady

Well again, I'm Emma. I'm so thrilled for you all to be here. Thank you so, so much. Great to put faces and voices to the names and the circles and the icons we see virtually on LinkedIn or Slack or whatever it is. So thank you again for being here. I know it is on a later side for some of you and just got back from a long work day and just appreciate you taking some time to chat with us and really hope this is helpful to you. Um, and then as some of you already met, we have Garrett on the call. He's a PT and he did the non-traditional, which is it a year ago, Garrett?

SPEAKER_00

A little bit over, yeah. It was last February.

Emma Brady

Okay. Yeah. So he's just had such a great smooth transition. So wanted him to help, like we were saying, moderate the chat, get the questions going, help with keeping things a little bit organized and make sure everyone gets their questions answered. So really excited to have him. Uh, he's also, I think, maybe our number one fan of the podcast. So text me about it and send me feedback and ideas. So that's another reason. Really wanted him to be involved with this event.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thank you, Emma. I am excited to be here. Like Emma mentioned, I am a PT myself, graduated almost 10 years ago now uh from PT school. Was a clinician for eight and a half years, loved what I did, worked in outpatient ortho, was a clinic director for about six and a half of those, ran a big team, worked in a big company, really enjoyed what I did, but I started to feel, as I would imagine, many of the people who listen to the clinician transition podcast, like there was something else or something more, or I needed something different. When it came time to figure out what that was, I was more than fortunate enough to find the clinician transition group on LinkedIn, listen to some of the older episodes of the podcast before the Emma and Emily spun it back up most recently. Um connected with Emma on LinkedIn, and ultimately now I am an account executive at Prompt, which has been just an amazing transition for me. But there's a lot of mistakes I made. I listen to the podcast sometimes and go, yeah, I did that, yeah, I did that, yeah, I should have done that. So I I still learn from it every single day. And there Emily and Emma share such a wealth of knowledge that we're all really lucky to have their time

Reframing Sales For Clinicians

SPEAKER_00

and attention today. So I'm gonna start with a question directly for you right now, Emma. And I'd like to hear a little bit from you about sales specifically. So you've built your tech career in the sales organization at prompt, really from the ground up, coming from when there wasn't a lot of process. You you, I mean, you'll be humble, but you created the sales process at prompt to what it is today, to the way I experience it now. On the flip side, people in healthcare can often have an aversion to the word sales. You've spoken about how sales has this reputation problem among clinicians, but how did you personally reframe selling using your PT instincts? And what makes a clinician dangerous in a good way in a health tech sales role?

Emma Brady

This is a fun question. The what I'm looking for in a salesperson is someone who is coachable, someone who can work hard, and someone who has resilience because sales can be a lot of rejection or perceived rejection. You know, just the other day I made a phone call. Hi, I'm Emma Click. And I thought, oh, maybe I maybe something's going on with their phone. Let me just call them right back. And at that point, they had already blocked me. And in my early days at prompt, that would have really bummed me out. I would have taken that personally. Like, oh, what did I say? What did I do? They don't, and it just would have really gotten to me, especially when you're doing that. Sometimes it's your full-time job, especially when you're starting out in sales. All you're doing all day, not all you're doing, but the majority of your day is calling strangers and getting hung up on, right? Because what do you do when you get a call from an unknown number? Do you pick it up? No. And then if you do pick it up, if you're maybe you're expecting a call, right? You're you're doing something in your life where you are expecting a call and you pick it up and you go, it's not the call I thought it was gonna be. And now I'm on with this person. They and they just launch into what we call pitch slapping. It's like, hey, I want to sell you this thing, like a click, or you hang up on them. So the reason I'm bringing up is that's resilience is getting to a point when you're in sales or being able to learn of not taking that personally. You know, maybe they're having a bad day, maybe they're really sick, something's going on at home, or maybe they just don't want to talk to you. And that's okay too. And then coachable, Garrett, you mentioned a lot of the work I did building up the sales team. A lot of that was looking at what I was doing, what other people were doing, and pivoting. Like the way that I or the rest of the team sold in the early days is much different than how we do it now. So being adaptable and saying, oh, well, I've always done it this way. So that's how I have to do it, which I think is hyper relevant to therapy. Both of the things I've talked about, being resilient and being coachable and changing, are really relevant to sales. And then the last thing is just really working hard and knowing that it's kind of like your own mini business within the business, which I think more therapists should think about if they're not already. Because a lot, oh, nothing's up to me. It's all up to my boss. There's a lot that is in your control that you might not be thinking about.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's such an important reframing of what is sales? How can our experience as clinicians be valuable versus comparing ourselves as someone in sales to the types we don't like, the quote unquote used car salesman or you know, the the person spraying perfume at the mall or the the shopping center. We've all experienced what bad sales feels like, but I think if you watch Emma work for a half of a day, you get to see like that that didn't feel salesy, or I don't feel like I need to go take a shower after watching that video. It's such a difference. Well, thank you for that.

Emma Brady

And I was gonna add to some, you know, if we're doing a big event and we have a lot of other departments coming to it, think of our, you know, major conference at the end of the year or something like that. A big speech I would give to everyone is everyone here is on the sales team, whether that's in your job description or not. So as you're thinking about a transition, whether or not it's quote unquote in sales, there probably will be some connection or to do sales and one reason or one way or another, marketing, product, customer success. They all have some aspect of it. So even if you don't want to be your quote unquote job, it is a really good thing to look into. And it also is likely to help you in your current role too.

SPEAKER_00

Well said. Well, I'll be honest with you guys, I was selfish, and that was one of my questions. So I'm gonna go into one of you guys' submitted

Growth Paths And The Super IC

SPEAKER_00

questions. Do you think there's more growth trajectory in non-clinical pathways? And is it easier to move up compared to clinician moving into clinical management? As an OT, it seems there's less formal opportunities in clinical leadership compared to PT.

Emma Brady

This question has a few parts to it. So when we think about moving up, so to speak, the traditional way, whether it was in the clinic or in a non-traditional, non-clinical role, was maybe thinking I'm gonna be individual contributor, then I'm gonna be a junior manager, then a middle manager, then a senior manager, then executive, a lot of those tracks or clinic director, right? Owner. That is, if you kind of look up, there's in the tech world, there's some early articles coming out about the concept of a super individual contributor, especially with, I don't know if has anyone heard of that. It's pretty interesting where if you think of the typical hierarchy of a company, it kind of looks like a triangle. Okay, you've got like the leadership at the top, and then you have the individual contributors at the bottom and the managers in the middle, where there's some people describing it now as moving towards a diamond where you have your junior contributors, then you have your, they call them super ICs or super individual contributors, and then management. And a lot of companies are seeking out these contributors that can do a lot and provide a lot of value without it necessarily being management, because they're looking for output, especially with all of the AI. So, how does this relate to you and your transition? I think this is really good news because it means you don't necessarily have to be someone who has a ton of experience. They're not necessarily going to value that as much. So whether you're a clinic director, a clinic director, that's a really good example of someone who could be a super individual contributor or someone who is a team lead. So you're not necessarily quote unquote a manager, so to speak, but you're still in a team lead role. So that can be a really good path for you as well. So, in terms of the transition and how does this apply, I know Emily and I have said this on the podcast. There are so many things you can do in the clinic to show that you're, you know, gritty. That's a startup tech word. You're gonna be really gritty and you can kind of get things done. I highly recommend looking into that for your clinic. The things like marketing. Is your clinic doing up-to-date marketing? Does your clinic have a TikTok account? Or an Instagram account? Are they doing drip marketing? That could be a really easy project for you of hey, what are the problems we're trying to solve? Does our clinic have people who aren't showing up? Are we do we need more patients in the first place? Do we have a patient satisfaction problem? What is that? And then those are the type of things that can translate really well to a non-traditional role and a good resume builder. And it can also help you figure out what you want to do. Because maybe you want to do marketing and then you start doing Instagram and doing drip marketing for the clinic, and you're like, I don't want to do this at all. I need to look at something else.

SPEAKER_00

So true. I think uh, especially when you're looking at what are the ways to progress, I'd be curious to hear from you, Emma and Emily, if you want to do some quick math as well. How many job titles or different roles have you had since you've made your transition to non-traditional non-clinical work?

Emma Brady

I think I'm at 10 in almost seven years.

SPEAKER_00

Emily, you got quick math?

SPEAKER_06

Let's see. CS7 seven years.

SPEAKER_00

Four So, especially in the non-clinical world, looking at what are those opportunities. Emma, when you say start taking on those roles, are you seeing the people who step into job duties first rather than waiting for a role to open are the ones who make those clinical, excuse me, non-clinical jumps?

Emma Brady

Very much so. A proper promotion is one that is the absolute least, uh, what's the word? Like the least climactic, the least exciting thing ever because you're already doing it. That's usually what a promote. Oh yeah, thanks for the title. I've been doing this for the past six to 12 months. And that would be the same thing I would do in the clinic too, is just just start doing stuff. And the what is the worst thing they're gonna say? Hey, stop doing that. Like that's what I did. And I'm not saying that my way is the only way to do things. But when I was working up to build and do more things when I was working in the hospital, I just started doing them. I said, Hey, this is really cool. I'm gonna go to this meeting. And no one said anything because I was doing the rest of my my workload. So as long as it's not taking away from your job, that is the one thing you do need to be mindful. It probably will be more work than your current role. It's not most teams aren't, at least initially, gonna say, Oh, yeah, let me just take 10 hours out of your out of your work so you can work on this project, because they still, at the end of the day, need to generate revenue for them. And that's seeing patients. And then maybe after you have a successful proof of concept and you can say, Well, I'm, you know, with one hour a week of my own time, I generated five more patient visits per day, was what's $500. And then we times that by 20 working days in a in a month. Then once you do that math, whatever that comes out to, I don't have my calculator on me, then you could justify and say, all right, I do think we should dedicate, give me half a day once a week to work on this, and then we can do this, you can extrapolate it once you have proof of concept. And that's a that's the kind of thought process that people in interviews are going to want to hear. Go ahead, Emily.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, just adding to Emma's point, if you are able to take a holistic view of your clinic and you're looking at what is our NPS, how many patients are we getting in the door, how many are staying, how many are compliant with their plan of care, if you're digging into all that and kind of like presenting that to your clinical leader and saying, hey, is there I'm seeing some gaps here. Is there anything here that I can help? That also helps you if you're if you're wanting to move to like a health tech that's still in the rehab world, now you've familiarized yourself with all the the data and the stuff that clinic owners uh that's important to clinic owners. But I know that's a really big aspect of the interview process for like CS and CX is how well does this person know the business aspect of the rehab world? And even just starting to ask those questions and digging in is also going to help you with that part of it.

SPEAKER_00

That starts to get into this next question, which was submitted by another user.

Competing In Tech During The AI Wave

SPEAKER_00

And that's in a world with AI making things more scaled, lots of healthcare professionals are trying to leave their respective fields. How can a clinician without a traditional tech role compete with a candidate who does?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, that's you're right. That was the perfect segue into that question because that is what I usually recommend. There's no perfect clinic out there. Every single clinic has points where they can improve if even if you look around the clinic. It's if you look around and look for any moments in your day or anyone's day where people are getting angry about something, they get frustrated. Well, every time I walk my patients over to the room, I never know if it's open. Even simple stuff like that. Look for those little opportunities for process improvement. And then digging into how you can help documentation efficiency is always my favorite one because there's no clinic owner that's going to say, no, I want you to spend more time doing notes. Like, stop being so efficient. And I can't imagine any colleagues that would be like, I don't want to hear what's helping you, you know, leave at the end of the day without needing to do additional documentation. Um so that's usually good, like low-hanging fruit.

Emma Brady

The other thing is it's one thing to do all of these things, and then it's another thing to get in front of the person who needs to hear all of the wonderful things you've done. So, in this, in this world where there is so much AI and everything's starting to look the same, it's in some ways easier to stand out when you're reaching out as a human. Little details matter, even just today. And this is not a dock on anyone who's done this, it's a perfectly understandable thing to happen. I got a message addressed to someone else. Hey, so-and-so, I applied for this role. Can you review my resume? And it was just clearly, and I thought, I don't even know if I have this role open right now. It was not personalized to me at all, and it was addressed to someone else on my team. And again, I know that's an easy mistake to make, but I'm way less likely to respond to that message. They could have been the perfect candidate. I'm way more likely, less likely to respond to that message than something that's addressed to me and is even just somewhat personalized. Hey, I noticed that you did my LinkedIn has all sorts of content on it. I noticed you did this project, I did this project. Would you be open to chatting about it? I'd probably take that call. I'd want to hear about it. I'm a nerd. I want to hear about the things people are doing. So the the how I would sum that up is find people. Go to calls like the one we're on now. Like right now, if you want it in the chat, you could say, Hey, here's my LinkedIn, connect with me. And you all could connect and say, Wow, look at this thing. Do you want to work on this together? Or do you know this person? Like normally, if you go to a webinar, especially in tech, that's one of the first things people will do is they'll start putting their LinkedIn in the chat and connecting, or join this Slack. Hey, I'm part of this community that I think would help out. Or I'm gonna go to this webinar, or depending, I know we sound like it we had some people here that live in or near cities, take advantage and go to in-person events. There are still people going to those, and I cannot emphasize enough how much that will speed up the process and make it so much easier if you connect with people versus doing all these projects, putting them on a resume, and then never hearing from anyone. I can see LinkedIn going in for those who are listening to this. We're seeing LinkedIn accounts or uh URLs going in the chat. So thank you all for doing that. Good job.

SPEAKER_00

It is happening in real time, people. I think that's such great advice. I mean, Emily's saying, here's how you get the chops. Emma's saying, here's how people actually know you. These two transitioned out of clinical care a while ago. I was last year and like trying to break through to a like super established, polished, so cool, and like modern. And like, I'm just like little me, like, how am I ever gonna get this? My advice to all of you, if you want it, would be no one's going to give you this job if they don't know who you are. And I have never read a resume and went, I know who that person is. It's unnecessary. You must you must have a resume, it's gotta be good, it's gotta be organized, but it doesn't tell me anything about who you are. And I know that Emily and Emma are both involved in hiring decisions for their teams. If they already know who you are before they've ever seen your resume, because of what you post on LinkedIn or because of connections that you made in person or virtually coming to these types of webinars, what makes our company really great and many other companies really great is the people that they have. And that doesn't really have that much to do with the projects they've accomplished. Now you gotta have that too. But to get that door to start to crack and creak open, it's gonna be who do you know and who have you reached out to and connected with.

Emma Brady

That's a great point. And back to what we started the call with about being resilient and maybe getting hung up on or not having someone reach out or you aren't able to connect with someone. Garrett is on a list of people that I could think of off the top of my head where it's I think this guy is gonna come to prompt whether we hire him or not. He's just gonna start showing up to meetings. I was getting, hey, have you talked to this guy, Garrett? Have you talked to this guy, Garrett? Have you talked to him? Like he was talking to everybody he possibly could. And I'm sure there are people who you messaged who didn't get back to you. Either they were on vacation or they hadn't checked out their LinkedIn or they just didn't have the bandwidth, whatever the reason was. So there's a concept in sales called multi-threading, where you, if there's more, there's typically, not always, more than one person working at a clinic. So you start to message all of them to kind of get what you are trying to say out there. The same concept would apply here. Where you want, I would definitely encourage you to reach out to multiple people. And then back to what we were talking about earlier, don't take it personally if they don't reach back out to you. There's likely something going on where it's just not a good time for them to connect and it has nothing to do with you or your candidacy. Or maybe it does. And then we've been we have an episode on that, on kind of how to stand out on LinkedIn. We might have one or two, and definitely check that out if you haven't had a chance to yet on specific specific things you can do to stand out in your messaging.

SPEAKER_00

That's great advice. Very actionable, super useful. Um, if you've got a question and you don't feel like or don't have a microphone that's gonna work, go ahead and throw it in the chat. Otherwise, if you want to hit that little hand raise, uh, we'll kind of go in order there.

SPEAKER_01

This

Early Stage Versus Established Companies

SPEAKER_01

might be a question. Directed to both Garrett and Emma because you guys transitioned, I would say, at different timelines, like Emma probably did it way earlier, and you mentioned you did it a year ago. How different has it been in terms of like what challenges Garrett you experienced in terms of transitions versus how different was it when you decided to transition, Emma?

Emma Brady

It was probably pretty different because we joined the same company at very different stages. So I was what you would essentially call a founding hire, where there was really, and I'm not saying this in a bad way, it was actually very exciting to me. There was essentially no infrastructure at all. So I got a slide deck made by someone on the operations team on just a little bit about the industry and some of the people we were selling against. I still have it and I look at it and I I every once in a while I'll go back and look at it and think, I just cannot believe where we have come. It's such a tangible measure. So that's where I had a lot of freedom though, and that's what I was looking at at the time. So I was going to webinars trying to teach myself, and again, I had support from the company, but going to webs webinars to teach myself how to sell or writing all of the emails from scratch, thinking up the cold call strips and strategy and doing pretty much everything where Garyl let you speak to your own experience. But when you started, it was hopefully much more of an established situation where there is an actual onboarding and more mentorship and more structure of hey, here's the stuff we've tried that hasn't worked, here's the stuff that is working. So the idea was that there was more support and training at that time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, pretty much. I joined when prompt was very organized, had ambitions still to really scale and grow. So, like there was definitely some like lost in the shuffle of I think we heard like a hundred people in, I don't know, a three or four month time frame. So there was a lot. Uh, the like drinking through a fire hose analogy, I think is very accurate, but it felt structured and intentional. That being said, the clinical world and the non-clinical world, the way that they pivot and move is just like 10x uh in terms of speed. So the team I joined a year and a half ago was I think 11 people. Now it's like 30. Things just change really fast. And like what you came up in or the rules that kind of found your role. Uh just be prepared that like those may be the same for a really long time. But if they change, you gotta be like, okay, got it. Like, we're rolling with it. It's still okay to ask why and get understanding and clarification as it always should be, but things change much more quickly, which is why Emma joined a teen and Emily joined a team, you know, a much earlier than me, and things have changed a ton. But even in my year and three months, it's changed massively, which I think is fun. That's kind of you know why I'm here. Emma and Emily, we haven't really talked about like reflecting on. We talked about how to stand out and what to do when you get a job interview. But when you're choosing where might be a good fit for you, do you ever recommend any sort of reflection on do I want to build it or do I want to join something that's already fairly shiny?

Emma Brady

Yeah, absolutely. And ways you can figure that out is I'm gonna say this over and over again networking, talk to people who are doing it or have done it, look on LinkedIn, see even things like how many likes are their posts getting at the company, or how many followers do they have? Do they even have an Instagram? Kind of see like where they are from a marketing standpoint. Do they have a ton of marketing people and basically no engineers? I would be, I would kind of look at the ratio, or do they have all salespeople and no engineers versus do they have way more engineers? Like look at the ratio of just how many people they have working at the company, and you can get some ideas, and then also funding is another way to see. And yes, not everyone is fit for kind of coming in and building something from scratch, and that's perfectly okay. If you get in that situation and you don't want to do it, you're probably gonna be more stressed out than you are in a clinical role that's maybe not the right fit for you right now. So I I definitely would be really intentional. I would think of it almost as a form of self-care to make sure that you're getting into a role that is what you're pretty sure as much as you possibly can be is gonna be a fit for you with what you want to do and also the level of responsibility and autonomy that you are looking for.

SPEAKER_06

And you can kind of look into your past too. Like, was there ever a time in your clinic where someone said, Hey, we want to build a big program for Parkinson's patients? Did that something like that excite you? Or does is it more exciting to like, okay, I'll have all these protocols in front of me. I know exactly what to do. So you can, I think you can do some self-reflection even with your clinical experience.

SPEAKER_01

I just had a follow-up question on that. I I won't take too long so that others can also ask you a question. But now that when I look on LinkedIn or go searching for companies or people who are working on the non-clinical side, it seems like a lot of stuff is already pretty established. At that point, trying to get into it, are there any basic skills or basic things that you're looking at? Like this is something that is needed right now because it is becoming a more and more established industry.

Emma Brady

In tech, AI is I I know there are some articles out there about people getting kind of a little AI'd out, if you will, if it just being a buzzword. However, the reality is that it's it's an interview question that I think probably every department at our company asks about. You definitely want to be familiar with and know how to use AI. And then after that, that would be a consistent one across, pretty much no matter what you're doing. And then after that, you'd want to see what's relevant to whatever field you're looking into going to.

SPEAKER_00

Really great question. Thank you, Shweta. Lindsay,

Reapplying Strategically Without Spamming

SPEAKER_00

what you got?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. First of all, thank you, Emma, Emily, and Garrett, for putting this on. This has been great, and you guys help kind of support this community so well. So I just want to thank you for that. Um, this is a little bit more of a basic question, but so I've applied to let's just say X Company X uh a couple times, and I got a first round interview, but wasn't able, didn't get the second round. And so I'm wondering, and this is kind of based off of more of the episode that you guys had with Katie, and how long should you wait to like reapply to the same company, a different job title, let's say, and the same job title.

Emma Brady

Mine, do you want to take that one? I can't remember her name, but didn't you get a good relationship with the recruiter you were working with for during your transition?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I applied to, I'll just talk through that experience actually. Before I applied to prompt and before I even knew about prompt, I really wanted to work for this um kidney company that did value-based care for kidney disease. And essentially, I just got to know the recruiter really well because number one, she was super nice. And number two, she actually was very good at like getting back to me and giving me feedback and stuff like that. I think it's probably gonna differ for most companies. Um, but for her, I would like apply for a job and we would talk about it. She would screen me for that job and we would come to a conclusion, either I wouldn't make the cut or I would say, actually, that doesn't sound like me at all. And I applied for, I don't know, two, three, four different, different jobs there. So, and that was fine. They did there was no like big red flags or anything like that. I also was following this lady on Facebook, and she really, really, really wanted to work at, I'm forgetting the name of the company, but they were big in like chart reviews and authorization management. And she applied there 40 like 40 times. And she just kept up, she's like, they're not gonna ignore me. I'm gonna keep applying. And so I think it just depends on the company. It never, I don't think it really hurts to apply again. I would maybe, if you haven't heard anything back, I don't, I don't know, like two, three months maybe. Um, that's enough time for the company to maybe have hired somebody. They're starting to onboard, and then if if it pops up again, that means, oh, they've closed it and then reopened it. And if it's just still open and it never closed, that might mean they're still in the process. But yeah, I don't know, two or three months, I would say. Garrett Emma, do you guys have anything to add?

Emma Brady

The only thing I'd add is it also could be based on any changes in your perceived value, if we want to put it that way. So say you applied in March and then you did this really awesome project at work that was relevant that concluded April. You could say, hey, I'm not sure if there's anything that's listed or unlisted. Just want to let you know about this really cool project I did. Thought it might be relevant to, you know, here's how I think it could benefit your company. And even if they're even if they think, oh yeah, not relevant, you it'll at least keep you top of mind and for sure help you stand out from other candidates.

SPEAKER_02

And you're communicating with the recruiter, Emma, with that one, yeah.

Emma Brady

Yeah, I think so because they're they're the ones who are going to you want them to be your champion if you can about a good recruiter. A good recruiter would say, Hey, thanks so much for keeping me updated, let you know if there's anything that comes up that's relevant, and a good recruiter will actually do that.

unknown

Okay.

Emma Brady

If you don't hear from them, you're like, oh, this is a way some you probably don't even want to work for that company. And you can also multi-thread, right? Depending on the side of the size of the companies, there might be multiple recruiters. So you could be messaging a recruiter who only works with, say, product people and you're trying to go on to customer success. Try to make sure you're hitting the right recruiter if you can. Okay.

SPEAKER_06

One other thing to add, one I would say an important caveat. If you end up applying to different positions, I do think also to Emma's point, it is important to like apply to one. And maybe you're talking to the recruiter and talking about the position, and maybe they say, Oh, yeah, you know, this is a good role, but based on your experience, I think maybe you should also apply for this other role. That's a good time to apply for a different position. What I would caution against is applying to multiple different positions at the same time, because that can give the signal that you really don't know what you want to do and you're just spraying and praying.

SPEAKER_00

It's a really good call-out. I think, especially along the lines of what Emily's adding here at the end of that there was a lovely podcast just in the last couple of weeks about running from versus running to. Um, I think making sure you're clarifying that distinction if you do apply for a different role of like, I'm running to this one also because it fits me in this way. I guess the only thing I would add is you don't need to share here, but my first question would be Did you get any actionable feedback from not making it to the next round? Some companies will, some companies won't provide that. But I think adding any sort of like follow-up plan to that, like, thank you so much for my feedback. You know, I'll be working on that. When you reapply, really reiterating or maintaining that relationship so that you can share. Here's what I've implemented since you shared that last. Because two of the three things Emma mentioned earlier in our our first question was resilience and coachability. I came back even after I got knocked down, and I came back better because you told me what to do, so I did it. That sounds like someone I want to work with.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_00

I saw one more hand go up. I think we probably have time for Emily and Emma to answer one more question.

Pivoting Back With Storytelling

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, thank you. If I could. Yeah, so I've got um a little bit of a unique experience in that I already had to make a pivot in my career due to um an injury and happened into a a dream position to, you know, just kind of fulfill something I had been wanting to do, but in wanting to move back into like an in-between, like a non-clinical role, um, I've been struggling with how to demonstrate some of that additional experience in a way that you would if you're if you're still in the clinic, if you will. But I've got some unique experience that can provide just as much contribution. So do you have any recommendations on how to how to navigate that type of um transition if I've had to pivot out of healthcare and I'm trying to pivot back in?

Emma Brady

Just to make sure I understand, you're saying you you were in non-traditional role and then you are no longer, and then you're trying to get back into non-traditional. Did I follow that properly?

SPEAKER_03

So I started out as a speech language pathologist, and then I had to pivot into more of an office manager position, but it's outside of healthcare. And now I'm trying to pivot back into healthcare, but in a non-clinical role.

Emma Brady

Well, without knowing the specifics, that's super interesting because you have the clinical background and then you also have business background. And so that would be compelling for a lot of roles and definitely something that could make you a very strong candidate. Again, depending on the role and depending on how you spin it, that would that would be really good because the skills you have from both fields are gonna set you apart from a candidate who may not this is a bad thing, but may only have a therapy role.

SPEAKER_03

So if I may, um it was recommended to me at one point that maybe I minimize some of the current work that I'm doing to try to bump my clinical work back up higher on on my resume. Should I just really try to emphasize a lot of the skills that I've acquired and just maybe label it as operational experience versus clinical experience? That way I can make it make sense on piece on paper.

Emma Brady

This I love this question. Okay, so this for I have a strong opinion on this that some people will completely disagree with, and that's that's okay. I don't really think the resume matters that much. That is a formality, and it's not something you want that you want to or really realistically can lead with. The resume for me is hey, I I did this informational interview with someone or I met them at an event, and then so that they remember me, I will then send them the resume. It's like handing someone your business card. I, while again, people message and be like, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. It's my whole career to write resumes for people. I just people just glaze over them, right? What Katie was saying, they look, you have six seconds. You're much, especially if you have a background that you like a non-traditional background for a non-traditional role, it's gonna be so much easier to explain that in person. And then the resume is just a record of that as a formality. So I I personally would not spend too much time splitting hairs over what order what thing is on the resume. It's nice to have a clear summary at the top. The amount of effort to the output on that, I don't think would be worth it.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you for that encouragement. I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's a great point using one of Emma's favorite lines of 95% outcome with 50% effort. Emily, anything to add to that situation?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, if if you're also wondering, just like in general, what do you want to emphasize? That also might come down to the role that you're applying for. And office managers that can encompass so many different things. I know office managers that are more like they're like the chief of staff for the clinic, the rehab clinic, or they might be more like project manager. And so depending on that, the the role that you're applying to, you might highlight different aspects of that role. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Being in charge of your own story, and most importantly, in charge of how it's shaped you is is such a huge factor. Anytime you're interviewing, if you can master storytelling in three these three segments of how to answer a question, it goes such a long way. And those segments are here's the story that got me there, here's where I am now, or what I can do now, here's how that's going to benefit me in this role. So if you can take and shape your experience in all of its personality and your uniqueness to you, and help them see where you were, where you are, and where that will allow you to be, it's that's the secret. That's my secret anyway.

Community Support And Closing Thanks

Emma Brady

Well, this was such a wonderful conversation. I'm really glad we got to meet some of you and really appreciate your time and for being here when you have so many other things to do. And we're having some funny comments in the chat. So I hope and I hope you all connect with each other too, that you're in the group, you're in the Slack, message each other, be there for support. Hey, I found this really cool thing, or I learned this thing here, I'm gonna post it. The the way I I would not be where I am professionally without this community and the help I got from other people. And so what Emily and I are trying to do with this is have is kind of keep that momentum going. And we we need help to do that. So the more the more you guys are contributing, the more valuable it will be. And other people will see that and they'll start to do the same thing.

SPEAKER_06

And you can lean on each other too. That's even if like you don't have anyone that you can introduce to your friend or your friend can introduce to you, even having that peer that makes you feel valid, you're not in this alone, that is so incredibly helpful throughout the process.

Emma Brady

Can do it, whatever you're trying to do, you can do it. I'm I mean that so sincerely.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you everybody for coming tonight. I appreciate you taking the time. Um, as a fellow listener and user and successful transitioner of the TCT, I know that Emma and Emily do all of this on their own time from the you know goodness of their hearts. So they're too humble to ask for it, but like, subscribe, whatever the words are that the kids use these days, leave a review because that you know encourages them and keeps them going.

Emma Brady

Thank you. This was great. Thank you guys so much. Bye.

SPEAKER_00

Bye everybody, thank you.

Emma Brady

Bye, everyone.